quote: Original post by FenixDown
If the game is 10 megs and the demo is 7 then it's almost pointless.

Depends on your defition of almost. First of all, If you can save your user 15 minutes from a 60 minute download, I would say that it is considerable savings.

More importantly, the one advantage I see about releasing separate demo and full version is leverage against pirates. If you release your full game, then all the pirates have to release is a key or keygen. Either way its a very small download and its not going to cost much in terms of harddrive space or bandwidth to distribute. Additionally, there is a lot of grey area around whether or not distributing a key or keygen is illegal. It's going to be a more difficult convincing a web host to shut down a site that is distibuting material of questionable legality.

On the other hand, if you distribute separate demo and full versions, the pirates have to distribute all of the missing data, whether its 1MB or 15MB. That eats more storage and bandwidth (assuming the extra size isnt just movies the pirates can rip out), and might make the pirates a little more reluctant to put them up for download. Additionally, if they distribute all of the missing content, there is absolutely no question that they are distributing illegal copies of copyrighted data. There is no grey area, the distribution is blatently illegal. Because of this, you will have a somewhat better chance of convincing a webhost to shut down a distribution site.

So that's how I personally see a separate version...leverage against pirates. Sure it doesn't stop everyone. However, just take a look around and compare the number of warez sites with the number of serialz sites. You will probably find a lot more of the latter.

There is another additional advantage is this. Consider how you go about getting warez software. Occasionally you can find it through a search engine, but usually the results that come up have broken links or they are already shut down. In order to find a good warez site, you usually have to know one of the warez site lists or get an IP from someone else. Then you usually have to FTP to a site, browse through some directories, and then download what you want (if there isnt a ratio, requiring you to upload first). A lot of average user's aren't going to be able to handle this. It isn't practical for them to get their hands on it. However, consider the case of serial numbers. Give me any even-only-slightly-popular program that requires a serial number, and I bet you within 5 minutes I can pull up a couple of serial numbers or keygens using google, hotbot, yahoo, or your other favorite search engine. With this way, it is almost trivial for any user to get ahold of the serial number (as long as they can get themselves through the porn popup windows). It has been said many times that you aren't going to stop a dedicated pirate, but an average user is mostly honest as long as you help them to stay honest. If you dangle a serial number in front of a mostly-honest user, there is a decent chance they will use it. However, make them go to the effort of finding an entire warez copy and they will likely decide its just easier to buy it.

Still think it's almost pointless?

Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Coming July 2002


[edited by - LordKronos on July 17, 2002 2:52:59 PM]

quote: Original post by Sneftel
Or so you've heard.

OK, or else you use hotline and know a hotline server. Or you have some other special technique or a group you are associated with. Or you know something else special that the average user does not. The simple fact is you don't find this stuff easily from a common search engine, and it is therefore (for all practical intents and purposes) inaccessible to the average user.

Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Coming July 2002


[edited by - LordKronos on July 17, 2002 3:21:04 PM]

Seems to be some confusion over the definition of the word "shareware." Shareware isn''t a type of product; it''s a marketing method. Shareware simply refers to software that''s marketed using any try-before-you-buy method. Demos, time-limited versions, feature-limited versions, etc. are all just different applications of shareware marketing.

On the subject of using registration codes vs. having separate downloads, I''ve used both, and I prefer the latter in general. For one, keeping a small file size is extremely important for encouraging downloads. It''s been my experience that a 1MB demo can easily generate 10-100 times more downloads than a 10MB demo for similar games in the same genre. From talking the people who run the major download sites, there seems to be a consensus that you see a steep decline in downloads once you pass 7-9MB. So if you can reduce the size of your demo by having separate versions, the extra downloads and sales should more than justify the effort.

Many games can be virtually the same size for the demo and full version, but I prefer the additional protection of keeping some content exclusively in the full version. If you have a time-limited demo, for instance, those are easily crackable, but if the code for certain features is simply not present in the demo, the crackers are out of luck unless they can get their hands on the full version first.

I also find that cracks and crack sites are far more prevalent and easily accessible to casual pirates than warez sites. A 2K crack also chews up much less bandwidth than even a small 1MB game.

As a publisher we don''t do much about piracy because it doesn''t generate sufficient results to justify the effort. I''ve seen many developers spend months of hard work trying to fight piracy. The result is usually that they end up with flat sales while they miss other more lucrative opportunites, and in the end the results are usually disappointing. Some developers turn piracy into a personal/emotional issue and lose sight of the big picture. I respect everyone''s freedom to make their own choices, but personally I haven''t found it to be a good business decision to wage on all-out war on piracy.

When I look at the big picture, fighting piracy just isn''t the best way for us to increase sales. We get far better results by investing our time and resources in additional marketing, distribution, acquiring products, etc. I''d rather suffer a bit of piracy for every game we sell and be able to write bigger royalty checks to developers each month than to stamp out all piracy but have to cut smaller checks.

If/when we reach the point that fighting piracy is our best option for increasing sales and growing the business, I''ll put our best people and resources on the task. But I don''t see that day coming anytime in the near future. Piracy may be costing us some sales, but it certainly isn''t holding us back from having our best year ever.


Steve Pavlina
Dexterity Software
www.dexterity.com

quote: Original post by LordKronos
Ummm, you do realize that you can put a registration key in a full version of a program too, right? The way you talk makes it sound like you either release:
1)separate demo and full versions, full version is unprotected
2)combined demo/full version with registration key for full version features

Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Coming July 2002

Yes, I do realize that, but the implication of a previous statement was that you wouldn''t put a registration key in a full version because it would look ''unprofessional''. Dexterity has a lot of very good points about piracyand downloads, but I was addressing the implication that you wouldn''t be using a registration code with the full version. I believe the combination of separate downloads and a registration key would by far be the best solution.

Alex: No, I didn''t get it. Please send it again. I''ll keep an eye out for it. ' Target=_Blank>Link

Looking for an honest video game publisher? Visit www.gamethoughts.com

quote: Original post by Ibuku
The problem with the actual defination of ''shareware'' is that the meaning has been transformed.
Do you consider a game like Soldier of Fortune II ''shareware''? Dungeon Siege? Jedi Knight II? etc. because they all supplied a demo. By the offical defination of shareware, these are all try-before-you-buy.

Remember that shareware is not a type of product; it''s a form of marketing. So to say that Soldier of Fortune II is a "shareware game" wouldn''t be quite accurate. I don''t consider any of the games we publish to be "shareware games" either. It''s more accurate to say that such games employ "shareware marketing" as just one of many marketing methods.

For instance, we also do many forms of non-shareware marketing, such as sending out press releases, buying online advertising, promoting new games in our newsletter, and otherwise directing people to our web site to encourage them to buy right away. One game we recently published doesn''t even have a free demo version -- we generate sales with a detailed sales page that gets people to buy right away. This approach has actually been quite successful, but it has nothing to do with shareware.

I served as President of the Association of Shareware Professionals in 2000 and 2001, and they have a pretty good definition of "shareware" on their web site here. The first sentence on that page is: "Shareware is a method of software distribution and marketing, and not a type of program."

However, if you define "shareware games" as games that employ shareware marketing, then I would agree that all the games you mentioned above would be considered "shareware games." But again, this isn''t the most accurate phrasing.


Steve Pavlina
Dexterity Software
www.dexterity.com

quote: Original post by mtaber
Yes, I do realize that, but the implication of a previous statement was that you wouldn''t put a registration key in a full version because it would look ''unprofessional''.

OK, I can see where you got that from. That''s not how I took that statement. I took it as saying that giving away your whole product for free and then only selling the registration code seemed unprofessional (of course, thats not all your selling, but it could seem like it). I certainly didn''t take it as saying that using a registration code was unprofessional. After all, most major professional products use registration codes/serial numbers (Windows, Office, Photoshop, etc). However, I can see where you could have interpreted it that way.



Ron Frazier
Kronos Software
www.kronos-software.com
Miko & Molly - Coming July 2002