Hi,

I am looking for programmers and artists for my business simulation game, Capitalopoly. I am envisioning programming to be mostly done in PHP. Art required is a mix of 2D and 3D. I tried doing it a few years ago, but gave up. The site is still up at: www.capitalopoly.com . The project is just too big for one guy!


Team name:
I typically fly under the "Flyingsoft" flag, my old disbanded programming group. This will be the team name.

Project name:
The name of the project is Capitalopoly.

Brief description:
The aim of the project is to create a moddable simulation of an ecosystem of corporations, incorporating logistics and marketing into the gameplay. The game will have buildings on a grid. The gameplay will take place over a specified time period, after which it will end. Cooperation and competition will be viable strategies, depending on your team's and company's strengths/weaknesses and interests. Winning will be somewhat subjective in the game... perhaps highest networth, or biggest market share. The aim is to make the experience itself the reward of gameplay.

I have not decided yet whether it will be entirely 2D or partially 3D. This will depend on the resources we obtain and our platform.

Target aim:
The game will be separated into two groups.

The first group will be individuals who wish to play in one of several public worlds. For them, the gameplay will be free.

The second group will be groups who wish to play together, or universities and high schools. These groups will have the choice of more varied and/or custom worlds. For these groups, there will be a higher degree of customization and customer support available, with per-person fees.

Compensation:
Compensation will be a percentage of the potential income for a certain amount of years. The percents will be specified after we have decided who will do what tasks and will further depend on actual progress in achieving those tasks. Upon finishing the first version of the game, the weighing of tasks performed, and thus income % compensation to all contributors, will be my sole judgement. I will exercise a reasoned approach to reach the percent allocations which will be explained in writing.

If the game is a commercial success, there will be the potential to stay on with revising and improving the game.

Technology:
I have been developing this game in PHP, Javascript, and MySQL. I would like to integrate with either one or both of Google+ and Facebook, but haven't decided yet.

There will be a lot of (MySQL) database work/manipulation involved on both the front-end and back-end.

Talent needed:
Artists:
* I require a treasure trove of artists. 2D, 3D, GUI design, and pixel art are needed. Artists with an interest in imagining and modeling buildings ala Simcity are preferred.

Programmers:
* I need communicative moderately to experienced PHP/MYSQL/Javascript programmers for the front-end. So far this is raw PHP: no frameworks as yet.

* I also need back-end programmers for the turn-processing and world generation. The turn processing language and world generation language has not been decided yet. So far I have used FreeBasic for my current world generation code.

=Note=:
It is very important for prospective team members to recognize that this will be a multi-month project. If I get about 5-8 people together over the next 2 months we can expect to finish at least 4 months after that. It's fine to have side-projects and school/job/"a life", but a regular commitment (minimum weekly meetings) will be required of all team members. I will try to hold several meetings a week to try to accommodate all team members' schedules and time zones.

Team structure:
I am the only person on the team as of now. I hope to get perhaps 2-3 programmers and 1-3 artists (the amount I need depends on the effort each person wishes to contribute) working on this with me.

Website:
www.capitalopoly.com

Contacts:
Please send any emails to capitalopoly at flyingsoft dot phatcode dot net or via gamedev's forums.

Previous Work by Team:
Hmm, none, since no team here... I have been part of plenty of programming teams and done many small programs but I have not as yet led one.

I have 17 years of experience as an amateur programmer in half a dozen programming languages. I have contributed to several independent projects and am an active member of the Freebasic programming forum, often helping people solve their questions and issues.

Additional Info:
The site is only a development version, hasn't been updated in a few years, and there is minimal functionality, but you may register, login, and try to play with the world map... the building graphics in the game are not my own and are placeholders.

Feedback:
ANY


My fellow game developers: thanks for reading and considering my proposal!

Bump...

Someone please reply. :-(

:-|

Lolz, no one? Everyone loves their fail mmorpgs, but unique projects? Guess not.

Well you are asking for programmers and artists, something that 90% of the posts on here seem to also want so theres a lot of competition. The project itself is rather niche so that probably doesn't help attract a lot of people to your project. Maybe providing any images you have already or even posting some more detailed information on how the project is going would attract more people to it.

Probably the most important part is not to let your frustrations out over the forum, especially by bash other peoples projects. I understand it can be disheartening and infuriating if people seemingly ignore your posts but it wont do you any good venting it here. Just keep a level head while providing as many incentives for people to take part in the project as possible.

Good luck and hope the project gets off the ground.

So, let's see why you aren't catching as much fish as you'd wish...
1) No screenshots/GDD/TDD/other available = no incentive.
2) No pay offered = no incentive.
3) Not ambitious = no incentive.
4) No earlier completed work = no incentive.
5) Copy-paste from the template left unchecked indicates no content review before posting (in other words: lazy)
6) Asking a lot for a little; "a treasure trove of artists"? Also, a well versed programmer can write both the backend and front end of this with enough time.
7) Unclear circumstances; are you a programmer or an artist or...?
8) Terms like 'my sole judgment' = no incentive + bad attitude.
9) No previous leader experience = no incentive.

Depending on how much you've done, 1 and 4 should be easy to fix. 2 and 3 are harder and go hand in hand with point 6; you shouldn't need as many as eight people for this kind of project unless you're looking to start a business out of it - in which case; start a business...and pay people.

Biggest problem is scope and content; you've'nt shown enough content to justify having such a narrow scope. Conversely, MMO wannabes usually have scope but no content - that's alright though since most amateurs are willing to join for experience and 'have their name in the credits' while they work away on a neverending search for the perfect game. In other words, a niche game with nothing to show is not likely to attract the helpful kind of people - while a MMO project is equally likely to attract the unhelpful kind of people simply because of the sheer ambition in such an undertaking.

I did see you posted a link to your website, maybe showing off the game from that would be a good idea?

Best of luck!

Thanks for the replies.

BigDeadBug:

* I don't think I can post any images from the current project because a lot of the images used are placeholders, and I don't have the copyright to many of them. While I would say it is fair use for an alpha (if that) build as a placeholder, I don't think it would be fair use if I started passing around screenshots publicly. ... I need artists!

* I am not bashing any particular project, but I notice there are a lot of MMO posts here. I have been part of one myself; I redid and re-detailed the design document of the MMO; spent some energy on it. It never got past that document.

So, let's see why you aren't catching as much fish as you'd wish...
1) No screenshots/GDD/TDD/other available = no incentive.
2) No pay offered = no incentive.
3) Not ambitious = no incentive.
4) No earlier completed work = no incentive.
5) Copy-paste from the template left unchecked indicates no content review before posting (in other words: lazy)
6) Asking a lot for a little; "a treasure trove of artists"? Also, a well versed programmer can write both the backend and front end of this with enough time.
7) Unclear circumstances; are you a programmer or an artist or...?
8) Terms like 'my sole judgment' = no incentive + bad attitude.
9) No previous leader experience = no incentive.

Is there something wrong with your computer?

1: Yes, no screenshots. There's the website; that fixes it.
2: There is pay offered. Check "compensation".
3: It's not ambitious? So, what's ambitious? A WOW clone?
4: I fail to see how this provides incentive.
5: I have no idea what you're talking about. "Copy-paste from the template left unchecked"? The requirement to post is to use the template. I used the template. I spent quite a bit of time and thought on it, so lazy? You just like putting out words, do you?
6: Again, see (2).
7: I stated that I started this before, that should show I am at least a programmer, no? I guess not...
8: Bad attitude? You get bad attitude from "my sole judgement"? How do you think it works with everyone else? I don't sugar-coat.
9: Same as 4. I fail to see how this provides "no incentive".

You seem to automatically assume a lot. For instance, you say the scope is "narrow". How do you define narrow, and why is it bad?

You both assume that the project is "narrow" and at the same time you say I'm asking for too many artists, arguing both ends... in fact, to do it right, I do need a number of artists. If I had one artist working every day for several months instead of a hobbyist, that would be enough, but I don't see that happening.

I stand by my previous thought.

Best of luck!
[/quote]

Thanks.

I do want to reiterate that if someone has specific questions about the project, please ask here or PM me. I won't bite... honestly.

Right, so let's go through this again:

So, let's see why you aren't catching as much fish as you'd wish...
1) No screenshots/GDD/TDD/other available = no incentive.
2) No pay offered = no incentive.
3) Not ambitious = no incentive.
4) No earlier completed work = no incentive.
5) Copy-paste from the template left unchecked indicates no content review before posting (in other words: lazy)
6) Asking a lot for a little; "a treasure trove of artists"? Also, a well versed programmer can write both the backend and front end of this with enough time.
7) Unclear circumstances; are you a programmer or an artist or...?
8) Terms like 'my sole judgment' = no incentive + bad attitude.
9) No previous leader experience = no incentive.

...and your rebuttal.

Is there something wrong with your computer?

No, but thanks for asking!

1: Yes, no screenshots. There's the website; that fixes it.

No, it doesn't. A website that requires me to register, give my email address, and has not a single screenshot what the game looks like is hardly what I'd call good incentive. But, aside from that, the point I was making is that there is lost incentive simply because you have no images to show - truth of the matter is most won't bother reading the full post because it get dreary when there is no pay involved (see below), no other team members, no screenshots... and by that time I stop trying to figure out what game it is or why I should care - after all, you didn't care to put up something as simple as an image showing you've got something to work with, correct?

I get your reasons for doing so; but... that doesn't help the fact you don't have any. Consider selling a game: would you buy one which didn't have a single screenshot or video of the gameplay? No, thought not.

2: There is pay offered. Check "compensation".

There is?
*checks compensation again*
Oh. That's not pay. 0% of 0.0 revenue is...zero. Unless you already have a revenue coming from it...? In that case, pay up front. Oh, and sign a contract.

3: It's not ambitious? So, what's ambitious? A WOW clone?

It's a niche, web based strategy styled game; would you put that up as an ambitious project? It takes a few months to program for a single programmer; with a team, it should barely take any time at all. This is hardly in the ambitious range because it is within the capacity of a single individual, so for a team effort it's hardly a strain.

Depends on what you want; but you need to recognize that, all things equal, people are more likely to join an ambitious project. Again, if you offered pay or some other kind of incentive this'd'nt matter as much - it's the lack of any incentive that's biting you.

4: I fail to see how this provides incentive.

Earlier completed work = experience = higher % of success = greater chance of profits = higher % chance of joining.
Note that I left out things like potential profit from previous projects and a whole hog of other things that could tip the scale in your favour when someone decides whether to join or not.

5: I have no idea what you're talking about. "Copy-paste from the template left unchecked"? The requirement to post is to use the template. I used the template. I spent quite a bit of time and thought on it, so lazy?

*sigh* Next time someone suggests you haven't checked your copy-paste from the template for errors, do check it. But, since you obviously didn't:

"[color="#1C2837"]I have not decided yet whether it will be entirely 2D or partially 3D. This will depend on the resources we obtain and our platform.[color="#1C2837"]
A brief overview of the project including how long it has currently been in production and a description of the genre and defining features of your game. For those with no specific project a statement of your group's goals or a mission statement can go here."[/quote]
Now, tell me that isn't lazy - not even checking your post for such a simple error, even when pointed to that said error does exist...

You just like putting out words, do you?

No, I like pie

6: Again, see (2).

So, you dismissed the entire point with a reference to your non-existent pay? You still haven't given any reason why you would need so many people.

7: I stated that I started this before, that should show I am at least a programmer, no? I guess not...

Not necessarily, you could just as well have been an artist working with a programmer, a web designer, monkey in a suit... seriously, this isn't advanced stuff. This should have been clear in "Team Structure" - "ME - Programmer"; is that so hard?

8: Bad attitude? You get bad attitude from "my sole judgement"? How do you think it works with everyone else? I don't sugar-coat.

How it works with everyone else? Thanks for asking! I make my artists and programmers sign standard work for hire contracts which stipulate the fee they are owed, the time I have to pay after they send their invoice, and how much -- if ANY - royalty they are owed and how long that takes to arrive. Oh, and little niceties like that they are only to get paid by EFT transfer, who pays tax where, that the royalties comes out of the net, and all sorts of boring legalese. Never, EVER, have I written, signed, or otherwise stipulated in a contract that something so fickle as 'pay' (especially royalty pay) is under my sole judgment - my contractors would kill me with their bare hands; after all, what stops me from letting them finish their work, selling the game, and then refusing to pay them a cent?

After all, it was under 'my sole judgment' so I could argue that my judgment is that they deserve nothing. More importantly, I could give them less than they think they ought to get - and so, either way, bridges are burned. So, now we're not only depending on you getting some actual profits from this but also that you are general nice guy that's not going to screw anyone over (massive trust for someone you just met on the internet, dontcha think?) or that there is no disagreement over who was owed what.

Geez, starting to sound awfully sticky to me... guess I'll stick to my contracted work instead ;)

9: Same as 4. I fail to see how this provides "no incentive".

Leadership experience shows that you have at least been through hell once before. Question: who'd you rather join - mr. IMadeAGame who talks about his previous experience working on a zombie mod that got a few thousand downloads and who completed the project as producer or mr. JoeSchmooNobody who has never worked on a team before in any managerial capacity and has no proof of how good or bad a leader he'd be?
I know which I'd pick...

You seem to automatically assume a lot. For instance, you say the scope is "narrow". How do you define narrow, and why is it bad?

Narrow isn't 'bad'. I explained carefully in my previous post why having narrow scope PLUS (emphasis here!) not enough content = bad when recruiting.

You both assume that the project is "narrow" and at the same time you say I'm asking for too many artists, arguing both ends... in fact, to do it right, I do need a number of artists. If I had one artist working every day for several months instead of a hobbyist, that would be enough, but I don't see that happening.

I stand by my previous thought.

Huh? I am not arguing both ends; you are recruiting too many artists for a project with a very narrow scope - you don't need freaking five artists for this project. Hell, I don't need five artists and I am fairly sure that your game isn't more graphical intensive than mine!

You should note that nowhere did I say, or even imply, that a narrow scope is bad - or, for that matter, that you need more ambitious goals. I simply noted that these are things people care about when looking for a project and they are powerful incentives when used right. Which incentives you provide I could care less; the important thing is to provide some incentive!


If I didn't care I'd left already. You can of course choose to ignore me or continuing rebutting everything I say; hey, it's your thread after all! But I've been through this song and dance too many times not to recognize when a potentially good project is falling in the dumpster because of negligence. No worries though, I won't super spam your thread if you ask me to stop - this is after all not my day job or anything

Firstly, It would have helped if you had PMed me the error in the post instead of berating me about it. It's quite a long post and the error is very short. I missed it after reading through it several times.

Now, I don't have any money, so I can't really have anyone sign work for hire contracts as you explained. Now, you seem to be e a legalese kind of guy, so if you read my first post you'll see I said "first version of the game": "Upon finishing the first version of the game, the weighing of tasks performed, and thus income % compensation to all contributors, will be my sole judgement. I will exercise a reasoned approach to reach the percent allocations which will be explained in writing." You are assuming far too much. Of course, towards the end, the contracts will be formalized once I can see what kind of effort all team members have put up.

You are still assuming it's a narrow scope, and you do think it is bad for the purposes of attracting attention. But I somewhat disagree. If it was narrow, I would have finished it already. It's designed to be very moddable; that (and the art) is where I stopped. In the past, I've talked to dozens of people about the design of the game, but talking is not enough:

* I need a fellow programmer, or two, not just take my ideas but kick them back and discuss feasibility.

* I really do need, let's say, 1-3 artists -- perhaps I can amend that. Imagine working for my team and creating 3 buildings for it. For the completed and unabridged version of "Toyworld", the first world which I have already fleshed out, it would take about 30 buildings. For a complete world with a lot of different markets and products the amount would get much higher. So: look around! There are very few people, at least who post imagined buildings as their art, and there's a reason: it's hard. Of course, I am not looking for photorealism in the buildings, but a certain style.is needed, and again that might take a 3D artist and touchup pixel artist 6 months working full time, but not a fickle amateur artist working 2 hours a week on average, as they are wont to be...

When you say something provides "no incentive", I realize you are perhaps looking for a different word, but "incentive" isn't it. I think maybe "interest", but not "incentive". You make good points as to whether the project would "interest" the average viewer as you see it, but not everyone is an average viewer. Further, just saying that you were or are the project leader of a team can be quite disingenuous. Many projects fizzle out, and often it is entirely the project leader's fault. I am a very experienced programmer, designer, and a bit of an artist: perhaps I should have explained that more in depth it the first post. Perhaps that still counts for something in this world. Edit: okay, I changed that up a bit.


TL;DR: Why someone would work on this project, in my view, is to work on a unique and interesting game, and which has the possibility of some income, perhaps a resume entry, and possibly most importantly, of being completed. I provide a good amount of details as to the structure of the game; something many other amorphous projects here cannot boast. I even offer more, if people were to ask.

I'm loving how my bump earlier got a "-1". Bwahahaha, amazing. I LIKE RED, KEEP IT UP.

Anyhoo, I'd like to pop in to say that I am still working on this project and still looking for potential contributors.

I'm about a month away from a beta.

I have a few screenshots of the main screen to share.