🎉 Celebrating 25 Years of GameDev.net! 🎉

Not many can claim 25 years on the Internet! Join us in celebrating this milestone. Learn more about our history, and thank you for being a part of our community!

Discontinuing Products and Pricing

Started by
11 comments, last by DavidRM 22 years, 8 months ago
I pulled this out of the Game Funding thread because it didn''t seem to fit that thread.
quote: Original post by granat It says on your homepage (SamuGames) that Paintball.net was taken offline because the costs involved with keeping the game going was getting larger than the income (correct me if I''m wrong).
That''s the long and short of it, yes. Not every business venture makes a profit...or, at least, not forever.
quote: Original post by granat The reason for this must be that even if new people pay for the game there''s still all the "old" players to service. The have already paid a one-time payment and now they use up valuable bandwidth for years without paying anymore.
That really didn''t come into it with Paintball NET. The rate of re-payment (via upgrades in access levels) was really good, and there were 14 levels of payment, each cost $10 US. The problem was that the game simply cost too much to maintain for what it was making, and it was draining resources needed for other projects. When we first rolled the game out, we expected it to last (maybe) 6-7 months and we *hoped* that it would recoup the $300 or so that we had invested in software to create it (this doesn''t account for our time, of course). Over 4 years later, the game had simply outgrown the original intent on all sides. Design flaws from it being a "quickie" game became evident all around, and it had been patched and re-patched to the point of absurdity in a number of places. There was simply no way to continue to support the game and maintain any forward progress. It was a losing proposition, so we did the only thing we could do: we pulled the plug. We announced the closing 3 months in advance, and stopped accepting payments 1 month in advance (in practice, very few payments arrived after the announcement, which was the point, and none in the last 2 months). We had always had a 30-day refund policy, so we honored that as we always had. Were there annoyed players? Of course there were. It''s hard to prevent that, no matter how much money you''re losing or much you try to explain things.
quote: Original post by granat Have you ever considered that people should pay a small amount of money each year instead ?
As an independent game developer, you don''t have the resources of a publisher like Sony. And your products inevitably reflect that. However, you are also inevitably competing with products that reflect the huge budgets, and this affects your pricing. EverQuest charges $9.95/month. They can because the perceived value is there. A low-budget game, though, by itself is not going to be able to charge that much, no matter how fun it may be or how rabid the fans are. Yearly fees aren''t significantly different from one-time payments, in player perception, at least.
quote: Original post by granat Have you ever thought of lowering the price of playing Artifact say 50% ? Maybe that way you could more than double the number of players (and income) ? But who knows right ?
Actually, I''m considering raising the price for the one-time payment levels on Artifact... But they''re doing OK at their current levels, and I prefer stability in the long run rather than knee-jerking in short run. We introduced a monthly payment option back in the spring, and that''s slowly coming into its own. Maybe they will someday completely replace the one-time payment options. We''ll see how it goes. It''s all a guessing game, ultimately. You see what other people are charging and you try to guage your own worth and perceived value. And of course, you try to spin those in your marketing stance and promotional materials. And you adjust your approach as you get experience (assuming you survive). We haven''t always guessed correctly, but we do try to learn from our mistakes. DavidRM
Samu Games
Advertisement
Ah this is great. I love this "business" talk
Thank you very much for answering my questions. It''s great to hear about such things from somebody who has real experience in the area.

quote: Original post by DavidRM
The problem was that the game simply cost too much to maintain for what it was making, and it was draining resources needed for other projects.


What were those costs ? Bandwidth ? The guy hired to reboot the server all the time LOL ?

Those design flaws you mention. Can you try to explain what they were about and why they made it difficult to keep the game running? What did you do better in Artifact ?

I''m sorry if I ask too many questions. I''m just very interested in learning more about this stuff.





-------------Ban KalvinB !
I''m not sure what kind of user-base Paintball.net had, but had you considered selling it off to someone else to use? If it had a significant user base you could probably easily ask at least $1 per user for the sale price.

And maybe that''d give somebody else the opportunity they needed to get into online game development or something. Personally, I find the whole online game development seen overly complicated and not too appealing, but that''s just me. I know there are many who would love to get into that area.

Oh well, maybe its too late now, but its just a thought!

Later,
Charles Galyon
Charles GalyonPresidentNeoPong Software, Inc.
I would love to get into that area

DavidRM:
I have saved some of the things you have said to me and others earlier in a textfile. I can see that you have said before that customer support had become too expensive for Paintball.net.
So it turned out I knew the answer to that question but only I had forgotten



-------------Ban KalvinB !
I do believe Paintball-net was up for offer but David never got any decent offers.

Paintball.Net stored/had over 200,000 characters (some people made multiple characters though so who knows how many _real_ people played the game over its existance).

And upto 300 Players playing during peak times over 4 servers.
This was not always the case though, Late 1997 for foreign players like aussies and kiwis who got home from work and wanted to play, there were approximately 1-2 players online which kinda sucked but I played anyway against robots.

Year 2000 there were always atleast 20-30 or so players online.

I _think_ the design flaws David is talking about are all the bugs that existed, which after were patched sometimes created new bugs. There were also ''experimentations'' from time to time to see how things went, some players liked it, others hated it.

By time it got to the point of ''pulling the plug'', most the old players wished it was the old way of 2-4 years ago.

All in all, it was a great fun little game to play and I wish it was still around.

P.S. Don''t take what I say as fact, just my opinion and view.
300 players playing at the same time..Impressive..

Did the server save scores and òther info for each character ?
-------------Ban KalvinB !
Another thing David. Did you sell many of those Paintball.net t-shirts ?
-------------Ban KalvinB !
Generally, you don''t play with more then 90 players per server, because it just becomes crowded (in the holding pen which is where you waited until the next game started). One of the best things about the game was the community and just the general chat, it was better then IRC.. That became hectic with 40 or so people talking all at once though as well as the general game info but you could turn off chat fortunately.

There were 4 servers, at peak times 90 players on the main server, about 60 on busprod server, and 20-40 on the tournament and secondary servers.

The server stored, Splats (of bots and other players) Bonus (points), Amount of games played ever, amount of games they can currently play, All their equipment, Alias''s, Money, Team they are on, etc.

In my personal opinion, what makes a good multiplayer game is the community, getting to know people on their, etc and basically ''making friends'' based around a game.
Good and entertaining game play is important too.
Just to clarify a couple things...

1. Paintball NET saw nearly 180K players go through the game. However, usually, 4 out of 5 players who checked out the game did so once, for less than 5 minutes. And only about 10% of that 1 in 5 actually paid (or about 1.5% overall).

2. The most players we ever saw online at once was about 140. And that was counting all 4 servers.

3. Approximately 2500 players actually paid for the game at least once. There were 4500 or so total payments over the 4 years the game was online, most of those in the last 2 years.

4. The costs were bandwidth used (PBN always used a lot) and in time required per day to handle "customer service" issues. PBN was a "personal property" game. You accumulated money and equipment as you went along. Which meant certain players were constantly "scamming" other players to get their stuff. We hadn't expected so much trading and seling between players, so the game wasn't setup to handle that very well. There were a number of "manual corrections" that had to be made each day from issues of this sort.

5. We did put the game "on the market" during the months before we sold it. Unfortunately, the game really was held together with packing tape and twist-ties, with a few 2-by-4's bracing it in places. It was something that would be very difficult to just "hand off" to anyone else. Also, the "technology level" of the game was very low. Very simple graphics and sound. Rather primitive looking, actually. Our price wasn't unreasonable, but no one was interested. And now we're not interested. We plan to use the name again someday and see no value in selling it off.

6. No, we never sold a lot of the t-shirts. They were offered primarily to show-case the artwork created by Sean Stevens based on "Paintball NET characters". They were such cool pictures we had to do something with them.

I didn't mean to start a thread about Paintball NET. I hope it's at least informative to somebody...


DavidRM
Samu Games


Edited by - DavidRM on October 26, 2001 2:10:17 PM
quote: Original post by DavidRM
I didn''t mean to start a thread about Paintball NET. I hope it''s at least informative to somebody...

I think it is very informative and I don''t think that there is anything wrong with talking about Paintball.net.
This has alot to do with business.

Yet another question. Did you have the servers at home or was it hosted by someone else ?

This topic is closed to new replies.

Advertisement