The physical architecture you are going to need to support so many users is a big part of the problem. Load balancers, login servers, gameplay servers.... those costs are high and they're not strongly related to whether you license the core tech or roll your own (optimization questions aside).

The architecture of your own program to run in such an environment is a big issue also, of course.

frob, that's a really interesting approach to estimating costs. I never considered going by the credits. There's some error built into it since on bigger titles you will have many people in the credits who did not nearly contribute for the whole duration of the project (testers, outsourced work, people who were hired part way through or who left), but this is counterbalanced by software projects always being over schedule and over budget.

Assuming you get people willing to work for royalties, that are somehow skilled and reliable (motivated and loyal), you could even technically do it for much less. However, this is quite unlikely.

I spend a lot of time on the Unity forums and it is very unlikely any project (unless extremely small) will be completed through royalties or collaboration.

One look at the Collaboration forum highlights this.

All these new game developers come along wanting to build the next big MMO or FPS, enthusiasm is high, and after purchasing a few models and a starter kit, a few screenshots are posted of the game. You then get a few people replying or joining the team, all is looking good....

Then a few more weeks into the development, it starts to hit home that game development, and more so trying to build an MMO or high quality FPS is indeed a daunting challenge and the team members drop off one by one. 95% of projects in the collaboration forum that are more than 2-3 months old have no more updates posted. Projects that are 6 months old will have the last update posted 2-3 months ago. These projects all die.

Long story short, offering royalties or trying to develop a commercially successful viable project is practically impossible.

Assuming you get people willing to work for royalties, that are somehow skilled and reliable (motivated and loyal), you could even technically do it for much less. However, this is quite unlikely.

I spend a lot of time on the Unity forums and it is very unlikely any project (unless extremely small) will be completed through royalties or collaboration.

One look at the Collaboration forum highlights this.

All these new game developers come along wanting to build the next big MMO or FPS, enthusiasm is high, and after purchasing a few models and a starter kit, a few screenshots are posted of the game. You then get a few people replying or joining the team, all is looking good....

Then a few more weeks into the development, it starts to hit home that game development, and more so trying to build an MMO or high quality FPS is indeed a daunting challenge and the team members drop off one by one. 95% of projects in the collaboration forum that are more than 2-3 months old have no more updates posted. Projects that are 6 months old will have the last update posted 2-3 months ago. These projects all die.

Long story short, offering royalties or trying to develop a commercially successful viable project is practically impossible.

Until some people actually do it, which brings amazing success stories.

I think its really a matter of how you look at the 1% and how people react to this.

Coming here for feedback is met with criticism, because the odds of a random individual to be within that 1% are so low, that the advice we are to give is that it's almost impossible.

On the other hand, some dedicated individuals (the 1%) have proven that this *is* in fact possible. The problem here is that everyone wants to believe they are part of the 1% because they feel motivated, etc.

But there are various other factors at work, including quite a fair deal of luck (what partners you'll find, etc.)

I wouldn't leave it up to chance myself. For example, I would have the budget ready, but still try to go royalties first, and then kick in budget if this model fails to deliver.

Smaller-scale "MMORPGs" are commonly known by the alternative names Multi-player Online Role-Playing Games, Online Role-Playing Games (and their initialisms), or Villiage games. Those terms might help you find more focused information.

If you've got 500 concurrent users on a single server, then while you may not be truly "massive", you're still going to face many of the same technical challenges that a proper MMO does -- typical shard sized in a large-scale MMORPG are not much larger than 500 players. The primary technical differences for you will be that you won't have to deal with anywhere near as large a database, and that load-balancing across servers will be not-so-important, unless your concurrent users outgrow what's a typical shard size. There's a big difference between developing a 32-player online game that persists stats (Say something like recent COD or Halo games), and a 500-player online game that persists and queries pretty much everything in real-time -- but there's actually not a ton of difference between a 500 player MMORPG and a 10,000 player RPG from a development standpoint. Resourcing and administration, yes, but dev-wise, no.

Reducing the complexity of gameplay and art assets as you suggest can keep the initial budget low, but be careful to focuss too much cost-cutting here. Development, including art, is essentially a fixed cost -- they may be on-going, but you pay what you pay, and the assets support as many people as needed for as long as needed. If your game is successful, those costs will be dwarfed by the running costs over time.

Assuming you get people willing to work for royalties, that are somehow skilled and reliable (motivated and loyal), you could even technically do it for much less. However, this is quite unlikely.

I spend a lot of time on the Unity forums and it is very unlikely any project (unless extremely small) will be completed through royalties or collaboration.

One look at the Collaboration forum highlights this.

All these new game developers come along wanting to build the next big MMO or FPS, enthusiasm is high, and after purchasing a few models and a starter kit, a few screenshots are posted of the game. You then get a few people replying or joining the team, all is looking good....

Then a few more weeks into the development, it starts to hit home that game development, and more so trying to build an MMO or high quality FPS is indeed a daunting challenge and the team members drop off one by one. 95% of projects in the collaboration forum that are more than 2-3 months old have no more updates posted. Projects that are 6 months old will have the last update posted 2-3 months ago. These projects all die.

Long story short, offering royalties or trying to develop a commercially successful viable project is practically impossible.

Until some people actually do it, which brings amazing success stories.

I think its really a matter of how you look at the 1% and how people react to this.

Coming here for feedback is met with criticism, because the odds of a random individual to be within that 1% are so low, that the advice we are to give is that it's almost impossible.

On the other hand, some dedicated individuals (the 1%) have proven that this *is* in fact possible. The problem here is that everyone wants to believe they are part of the 1% because they feel motivated, etc.

But there are various other factors at work, including quite a fair deal of luck (what partners you'll find, etc.)

I wouldn't leave it up to chance myself. For example, I would have the budget ready, but still try to go royalties first, and then kick in budget if this model fails to deliver.

I think the main issue is that most who do start a mmorpg project are people who are very inexperienced in the field of game development. I have been there...at the age of 15...we worked on it for more then a year...and yea, people get demotivated after a while. Its easy at the start...but when the real grind begins...making the many models you need and implenting the insane amount of features...you cant do that with a small team and no budget. Still, for me personally it was a great learning experience, and it made me chose to study game dev. Im now working on a sci-fi shooter, and i have to admit, its still a big project, but when you use an engine like udk it is very realistic (especially when working with modular models and textures). But its best for starting game devs with no budget to start with really small projects that can generate revenue in a short timeframe..which can potentially fund larger and future projects.

But yea, as said before, start with a GDD and asset listing, then you can get an estimate of the costs, it is also something that you NEED to know when approaching investors...which is a MUST for a big scale project like an mmorpg...unless your using a minimalist art style or something....or if you put a team of devs in a cage and only feed them if they make their deadlines..but that will probably get you in jail :).

I'm just going to tell it straight:

1) Don't 'hide' your ideas. They aren't original, no one is going to 'steal' them.

2) Be realistic. The only way you could possibly pull something like that off is to hand all creative and personnel control over to someone else, at which point - why wouldn't he be doing it for himself?

3) Make a game - a simple, single player game. FINISH IT. Then you'll have some idea of what's involved: artwork, music, writing, level design, engine code, game code. That's all before you even get into network architecture and infrastructure. You're like a kid with a guitar saying I've never played this thing before but I want to get with a few good buddies and we'll have a stadium tour across the continent. It doesn't work that way

4) I'm not trying to piss in your Cheerios, but if making an MMO is your goal, you've got to get there in steps - just like anything in else in life, before you can run a marathon you have to run a mile. When guys like Brad Mcquaid, who's as experienced and talented as they come (at least on the game design side), can't get his new game off the ground you've got to realize how fierce the competition for dollars out there is.

people get demotivated after a while. Its easy at the start...but when the real grind begins...

Isn't this the case with all game development though? MMOs are larger in scale, but not in scope.

It's perfectly possible to build an MMO around very few concentrated features too.

people get demotivated after a while. Its easy at the start...but when the real grind begins...

Isn't this the case with all game development though? MMOs are larger in scale, but not in scope.

It's perfectly possible to build an MMO around very few concentrated features too.

Yea it is the case wtih all game development, but it is 10 times worse with a huge project like an MMO. But like you said, if you keep your MMO very simple and dont expect to make skyrim online or something, yea sure, perhaps it is possible. Its just that from experience, the kind of people that start an MMO in the first place are the kind of people that do it because an MMO equals unlimited possibilities, but that can be dangerous if you dont keep your concept realistic and achievable within a timeframe that is not half a decade. I mean, everything is possible in this world....as long as you tackle every goal in small achievable tasks.. but i would not recommend people trying to make the next WoW killer and instead go with something unique that can be achieved within a decent timeframe by a small team. Also...odds that private investors will invest in yet another MMO project are kinda small unless you have something really unique and exciting...simply the costs to just run a game like that are huge (servers etc)....so to get that return on invest is alot harder. I mean... i wouldnt recommend it to beginning game devs, like said before...there will always be the 0.01% that succeeds...but your odds at releasing a mobile game for example are alot higher, and as a beginning game dev your first priority should be to build up a portfolio and gain experience...so im not sure if an mmo is the perfect candidate for that. Anyway, im speaking here about beginning game devs...if you are an experienced game dev with already shipped games on your portfolio and connections in the business world...then just forget about everything i said because it is a entire different story.

Assuming you get people willing to work for royalties, that are somehow skilled and reliable (motivated and loyal),

you could even technically do it for much less. However, this is quite unlikely.