You should be able to find out yourself.

How do we know how much you are willing to pay your employees ?

If you search the net I''m sure you can find the price of various pieces of software.

I am in the process of trying to come up with some numbers, myself. I''m starting to put together a business plan that I want to try to put into action within the next 2-3 years. For that, I need to save up some serious $$$, but I''m working out how much.

So far, the complexity has come from pricing people - the software is easy, as the last poster said. The problem with pricing people is that the cost of living has to factor in. For example, in Ottawa, where I live, the Canadian $ and (relatively) low cost of living makes for some very different numbers, from, say San Jose or San Fran.

Also, game programmers tend to get paid lower than I feel they should, given their skills, so I''m trying to factor that in as well. Given the Ottawa market (don''t know if this means much to you), I''m working on about $38,000 CDN for a junior 3D artist and about $42,000 for a junior developer.

By junior I mean relatively fresh out of school, ideally with a little relevant experience (summer job, etc.).

This is a tough thing to do well - I''d be curious to know what kind of numbers you wind up with!

Good luck!

Cheers,
Russ

Sorry I only know very few of the people here (so I don't know if you do) but what I am curious about is, do you already have a good running shareware game out there or do you want to go directly to serious business without pre-experience?

-----------

Niels Bauer Software Design
Creators of Smugglers 2, TV Manager and Coffee-break: Star Trader
Website: http://www.nbsd.de

[edited by - Jester101 on June 11, 2002 2:16:55 AM]

heh. i was going to post the same thing jester!

http://www.positech.co.uk

Hi All,

I'm not sure if you're posting at me or the original poster, but it is a very good (and valid) question. In case it is me, here is a bit about myself:

I am a 29-year old software architect at a mid-sized Ottawa company specializing in information systems for tracking aircraft maintenance. I have a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science and a minor in Economics, and about half a masters' degree (in Computer Science - problem is, I found I liked work better than school...). I have been programming since I was about 8 years old (anyone else out there remember the Vic-20? :-)), and have dabbled with various aspects of games all that time.

I'm not worried about my ability to design or write (code) a game. I'm not worried about my ability to close a project - that is what I do for a living, now... I define a product vision and make sure we get there on time and on budget.

I have all the necessary skills for making games (from a softare development standpoint, that is) except for the art and modelling, and I'll hire for that.

I'm more worried about my ability to market and sell that game, and I'm concerned about how to look ahead at growth - this is a company I'm hoping to found, not a one-trick-pony. Hence the business plan.

That is why I'm on a two-or-more-year crusade, here. I expect it will be at least that long before I have my head around the business.

In those two years, I'm expecting to have built a solid business plan, and released one shareware title and one demo.

Any other inputs welcome!

Cheers,
Russ



[edited by - ComponentFault on June 11, 2002 1:13:33 PM]

I remember the Vic 20, I started on the ZX81
Be aware that being able to manage and finish a normal software project on time and budget dosent give you the full 100% experience of a game project. Normal software engineering works with (relatievly) fixed goalposts, the 3D card market and the 3D Audio market is in constant flux. Dont expect any design document for a game to survive intact throughout the lifecycle of the project.
I know experienced project managers from other industries who pull their hair out with frustration trying to manage a games production, and having a lot of very clever and highly educated intelligent coders dosent automatically equal a successfull games team. Games coders are slightly ''different'' to your average coder in all sorts of ways, enthusiasm, work habits, ability to schedule themselves etc etc. After all, nobody working on a spreadsheet program ever gets behind schedule because they were busting to put in some new cool feature they saw in a rival spreadsheet (do they?)
Anyway, best of luck with it all! Dont let me and jester get you down, there are just far too many inexperienced amateur coders who dont know that its best to start with a small project, they try and do Everquest as their first game, and thats always doomed.

http://www.positech.co.uk

Ah, yes... the ZX81. My neighbour had one of those and a TRS-80. Ah, what you could do in 2K of memory... :-)

I agree 100% with everything you''ve said. And you are right to question someone who is about to plod headlong into developing Quake IV. However, that''s not me. :-)

Game development IS different from most software development projects. However, I will wager that 80% of the reasons that projects fail apply equally to both domains (poorly specified requirements, scope creep, poor build and change control, personality conflicts...). I would also contend that most of these will crop up in a group setting, not a solo project (e.g. who cares about change control when you''re the only one coding?).

[Incidentally, you''d be surprised at how similar any coder is to a game programmer. The difference is in the formality of the setting, I believe. Any developer can hang a project if they are given the authority to make changes at will. I believe in a fairly disciplined approach to change control, to keep targets within reach. Often, of course, change is inevitable, but it has to be well thought-out.]

Certainly, I''m not suggesting that my qualifications make me specially suited for game programming. However, I think I have the tools at my disposal to learn it.

Which brings me back to the time horizon I described above (2-3 years). I am about 1/2-way through my new 3D engine, and have a reasonable expectation that it will be where I want it by the end of the summer, barring work getting in the way. ;-)

From there, I intend to implement one of my three (relatively) simple game designs that I have completed. I expect that will take me an additional 6-8 months, depending on the quantity of free time.

Conservatively estimating, I figure about a year from now I''ll have my first shareware title out. That will put me in a good position to round out the areas that I''m currently weak on in the business plan, and start piecing together a demo to fit better in the context of what I want the business to do.

Thanks for the feedback - I''m going to have to defend my business plan quite actively as time goes on, so I certainly don''t mind having my approach questioned. I''m looking for as much info as I can cram into my head without disrupting my ability to understand OpenGL.

Cheers,
Russ

Have you ever thought about going into the hand-held games industry? That market is wide open right now and even a poor start-up can make some serious money.